Comments on: Paul Owens says positive reinforcement training is best

By: Lindsay Stordahl

Lindsay Stordahl — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 21:03:47 +0000

I think it depends on what works best for the dog and the owner. In most cases, it is going to be a combination of many methods.

I don’t like to depend on treats, but in many situations it keeps my mutt’s attention. I like to use training collars until the dog reaches a certain point in the training where he doesn’t need the training collar any more. And my dog is trained to stay in a big yard with the help of an e-collar. None of these collars have ever hurt him.

Still, Paul Owens says he does a lot of work with aggressive dogs and he says he is successful using only positive reinforcement methods.

I say, use whatever works.

By: Ty Brown

Ty Brown — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 20:49:48 +0000

I disagree with the ’so-called’ positive only method for a lot of reasons:
1- There is no such thing as ‘only positive’. Even if all you do is withhold a treat there still MUST be a negative in order to reinforce good behavior.
2- The words he uses ‘violence’, ‘force’, etc. conjure images of abuse. Using corrections properly is so far from abuse. A tug on the leash or the proper use of an e-collar isn’t violent. It also isn’t force. If you speed and get a ticket does that mean you are being ‘forced’ to drive slower? No! You still have the freedom to choose. Balanced dog training does the same, it outlines a structure with discipline but I teach clients to NEVER force a dog, alpha rolls etc. are useless. I want dogs to make decisions and learn problem solving.
3- It isn’t natural. What species communicates by simply rewarding, rewarding, rewarding? Dogs don’t do it amongst themselves. Of course the justice system in our country could use some help but imagine if humans lived like this? Imagine if there were no tickets, fines, jail time, etc. Imagine if humans didn’t use corrections.
4- There is no way in the world that treat and praise only based training will EVER earn the respect of your dog. How could it? If a dog is faced with two choices and they are ‘get a treat by doing x’ or ‘don’t get a treat by doing x’ how on earth will that ever teach a respect for leadership? Teaching respect doesn’t require harshness but it only makes sense to use corrections.
5- High levels of obedience are incredibly difficult and time consuming with ‘purely positive’ methods. I know that they are out there but I have never met a dog that was trained with ‘positive only’ method that was halfway impressive. To be effective with this style of training is far too difficult for the average dog owner. Those that do have success usually require months and years to achieve something that could have been achieved in minutes or weeks by communicating in a more natural way.
6- Limitations. I have made a name for myself in my local market because I can fix aggression issues very well. Many dog owners go to ‘positive only’ trainers only to be told that their dog should be put down. These trainers just don’t have the tools to work with challenging cases. To me, that is far more inhumane than using more traditional and effective methods involving training collars.

As always, good post. It is nice to see various perspectives.

By: Mayra Calvani

Mayra Calvani — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 06:49:52 +0000

Enlightning interview, Lindsay! Mayra Calvanis last blog post..Check out the trailer for CRASH!

By: jan

jan — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 21:41:29 +0000

Good interview. I interviewed a police K9 trainer for a magazine story I wrote and he had been in a comparison study of dogs trained with positive reinforcement and those trained with harsher methods. All who took part had graphic proof that positive methods work better and faster.

By: Biggie-Z

Biggie-Z — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 16:53:03 +0000

Positive reinforcement is the best. We use the clicker and Biggie is so responsive to it. And, I think you get much more reliable long term behavior from positive reinforcement.

Ok, I admit I do use leash jerks occasionally, but they are more to get his attention than anything else.

Terrific post, as usual.

By: Apryl DeLancey

Apryl DeLancey — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 15:02:00 +0000

I am a firm believer in positive reinforcement. No matter how aloof or stubborn my guy gets, I do everything in my power to remain patient and he is coming around nicely.

By: Saint Lover

Saint Lover — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 14:21:41 +0000

I have that book and LOVE it… It was one of the first “dog books” I read that really clicked the lightbulb on. He has alot of great techniques. Good reading!